Coal, World War & the Collapse of European Imperialism

by Jason Godesky

The basic pattern of civilization over the past ten thousand years has been relatively simple: begin farming, and as the act of farming makes future farming impossible because of its ecological consequences, expand into neighboring territories. In “The Age of Exuberance,” we discussed how this pattern had set the large-scale narrative of European history. By Plato’s time, Greece was already beginning to fail agriculturally. By the fifth century, Europe had run out of lands to expand into, resulting in the collapse of the Roman Empire. Throughout the High Middle Ages, populations were balanced against famine and plague, until Columbus’ discovery resulted in an “age of exuberance,” that came with new lands to expand into and cultivate.

While the colonists themselves reaped much of the nutritional advantages of the New World and healthy soil, the intended purpose of the colonial enterprise was to move the wealth of the New World back into the Old. Populations in Europe also boomed, supported by imports from the New World, and New World crops that could grow in the Old (like potatoes in Ireland).

The problem I’ve glibly labeled “peak wood” brought down many ancient civilizations. These timber crises are very similar to the current “peak oil” theory in several ways. Forests still existed in all cases, but they were increasingly far away, and the energy cost of going out that far, chopping down the trees, and dragging them back to the nearest population centers, outweighed the energy the wood provided as a fuel. This is what happened to Cahokia, and at the end of the Bronze Age, and many other times throughout history. Sixteenth century Europe began to face a similar timber crisis, but where other civilizations had collapsed, Europe in general—and Britain in particular—had an alternative available. Though inferior, as the cost of timber rose, it became increasingly attractive.

Coal was used in the Middle Ages by blacksmiths, but few others; the black fumes were readily recognized even before the Industrial Revolution as an intolerable annoyance.

From the earliest times there was considerable prejudice against coal because of the black smoke and fumes that it caused, especially since domestic medieval fires tended to be open affairs. In 1257 Queen Eleanor was driven from Nottingham Castle by the smoke and fumes rising from coal fires in the city below (there was a coal mine within a few miles of the city). In 1283 and 1288 there were complaints about air quality in London because coal was now being used in lime-kilns. In 1307, a Royal Proclamation forbade lime-burners to use coal in parts of south London:

An intolerable smell diffuses itself throughout the neighboring places, and the air is greatly infected, to the annoyance of the magnates, citizens, and others there dwelling and to the injury of their bodily health.

This proclamation did not work, and a later “commission of oyer and terminer” had instructions to punish offenders “with great fines and ransoms” for a first offence, and to demolish their furnaces for a second offence. Economics won out over comfort, however, and London was to remain polluted by coal fumes for another 600 years. Shakespeare’s Master Seacole was grubby and dirty, and Queen Elizabeth once stayed away from London because of the “noysomme smells” of coal smoke. The London Company of Brewers, sensitive to the Queen’s displeasure, offered to burn wood rather than sea-coal in their breweries close to the Palace of Westminster, since the Queen was “greately greaved and annoyed with the taste and smoke of the sea-cooles.”1

Price of timber vs. coal in London, 1400-1800 CE

The price of timber vs. coal in London, 1400-1800 CE. From Allen, 2006. [PDF]

As timber prices continued to rise, the price of coal remained constant, making the transition impossible to avoid. The reprecussions of the new type of fuel would be vast.

Throughout most of civilized history, the ruthless economics of overpopulation meant that labor was cheaper than fuel. Timber crises were common, and overpopulation was endemic, so the economic atmosphere actually opposed technological innovation. After all, that would consume a limited resource (fuel), in order to save an abundant resource (manual labor). With the shift from timber to coal, part of this equation began to change. The other part was the high cost of labor in London, even though it had an enormous population. The key lay in the basis of that population in international trade from its New World colonies.

In pre-industrial Europe, real wages moved inversely to the population. … [T]he real wage rose in Britain and Italy after the Black Death of 1348/9, which cut the population by about one third. As population growth resumed, the real wage fell in most of Europe between the fifteenth century and the eighteenth. The Low Countries were an important exception to this trend. Real wages fell in rural England in the sixteenth century, but London bucked the trend in the same way as Antwerp and Amsterdam, and, indeed, as we have seen, living standards rose generally in southern England from 1650 onwards. Why were England and the Low Countries successful?

The superior real wage performance of northwestern Europe was due to a boom in international trade. The English boom began with the export of ‘new draperies’ in the late sixteenth century. These were light woolen clothes made in East Anglia and exported to the Mediterranean through London. Between 1500 and 1600, the population of London grew from about 50,000 to 200,000 in response to the trade-induced growth in labour demand. During the Commonwealth, Cromwell initiated an active imperial policy, and it was continued through the eighteenth century. In a mercantilist age, imperialism was necessary to expand trade, and greater trade led to urbanization. Between 1600 and 1700, London’s population doubled again, and by 1800 it approached one million. In the eighteenth century, urbanization picked up throughout England as colonial trade increased and manufacturing oriented to colonial markets expanded. Between 1500 and 1800, the fraction of the English population living in settlements of more than 10,000 people increased from 7% to 29%. The share of the workforce in agriculture dropped from about 75% to 35%. Only the Low Countries, whose economies were also oriented to international trade, experienced similarly sweeping structural transformations. In the eighteenth century, the Dutch and the English had much more trade per capita than other countries in Europe.2

The Industrial Revolution occured in Britain because, for the first time, it was human life that was expensive, and fuel that was cheap. That combination meant that for the first time, technological innovation was worthwhile, and the Industrial Revolution—indeed, the entire technophilic mindset—followed from this unique constellation of factors. The goal of the Industrial Revolution was, as much as possible, to replace expensive workers with inexpensive machines. The notorious working and environmental conditions of the Industrial Revolution followed naturally from its premise.

Britain’s success led to an era of global domination, largely through trade. This also put the pressure on the rest of the world to “catch up” with Britain as an industrial power. The cities of the northeast in the United States, for instance, made a very successful move towards industrialization because they, too, had cheap fuel and a large, expensive work force based in cities. In the American South, the situation was different. The growing sociological tension eventually led to the United States Civil War, much more than any of the moral causes later attributed to it.

The so-called “Second Industrial Revolution” began as other countries joined in the Industrial Revolution, generally dated to about 1865-1900. It coincides closely with the “New Imperialism” that began after the Franco-Prussian War, dated to about 1871-1914. During this period, the corporation began to take center stage. Amalgamation of industries in Britain occured while the Fourteenth Ammendment was used in the United States to establish corporate “personhood.” At the same time, the breakdown of Britain’s economic hegemony led to the greatest consolidation of global land area under a minmum number of governing bodies the world has ever since: the “Great Game” in Central Asia, the “Scramble for Africa,” and other initiatives in which European powers conquered most of the globe.

One of the specific causes for the race for colonies had to do with the changing nature of military and trading vessels. Steamships were replacing wooden ships with sails during the course of the nineteenth century. These ships ran on coal which fueled the furnaces, which in turn boiled water needed for steam power. The problem was that ships could only store a certain amount of coal in their cargo holds. Thus, the need for coal refueling stations along trade routes became indispensable. In addition to pursuing colonies for raw materials, European nations began to selectively impose their will over nations that could provide convenient refueling stations or military bases. The use of Pacific Islands for these stations and bases is a good example.3

Jules Ferry, twice prime minister of France during this period (1880-1881, 1883-1885), gave a speech in which he addressed frankly why this great scramble for colonies took place:

At present, as you know, a warship, however perfect its design, cannot carry more than two weeks’ supply of coal; and a vessel without coal is a wreck on the high seas, abandoned to the first occupier. Hence the need to have places of supply, shelters, ports for defense and provisioning…. And that is why we needed Tunisia; that is why we needed Saigon and Indochina; that is why we need Madagascar… and why we shall never leave them! … Gentlemen, in Europe such as it is today, in this competition of the many rivals we see rising up around us, some by military or naval improvements, others by the prodigious development of a constantly growing population; in a Europe, or rather in a universe thus constituted, a policy of withdrawal or abstention is simply the high road to decadence! In our time nations are great only through the activity they deploy; it is not by spreading the peaceable light of their institutions … that they are great, in the present day.4

At the age pf 47 as an up-and-coming politician, Winston Churchill became the First Lord of the Admiralty in 1911. Churchill appealed to the same logic as Ferry, and suggested shifting the Royal Navy from coal, to petroleum.

As a coal ship used up her coal, increasingly large numbers of men had to be taken, if necessary from the guns, to shovel the coal from remote and inconvenient bunkers to bunkers nearer the to the furnaces or to the furnaces themselves, thus weakening the fighting efficiency of the ship perhaps at the msot crucial moment in the battle. . . . The use of oil made it possible in every type of vessel to have more gun-power and more speed for less size or less cost.5

Churchill organized the purchase of a controlling government share in the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, founded around William Knox D’Arcy’s discovery of oil in Iran, the first major oil find in the Middle East. The Anglo-Persian Oil Company eventually become British Petroleum, or “BP.” Of course, while Britain still had supplies of coal, it did not have significant supplies of petroleum, so Britain would have to maintain a flow of petroleum from other countries—like Iran.

Yet the changing situation for coal production in Europe was beginning to have an effect. The United States had surpassed Britain in coal production by a full million tons per annum by 1900, while Belgium’s coal seams were being exhausted by the end of the 19th century, forcing them to import coal from the Ruhr Valley. Most of Europe’s coal production would not peak until the second half of the twentieth century, but Churchill’s switch over to petroleum would precipitate a rearrangement of global powers away from the vast, territorial, coal-burning empires, to the more fluid petro-powers we know today.

The great land grab of the “New Imperialism” left Europe enmeshed in a fragile web of alliances, a particularly precarious kind of international complexity prone to severe collapse. That is precisely what happened with the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Yet other, more basic material concerns, certainly hung in the background. Despite the distinctly eastern European origin of the conflict, the main combatants were Britain and Germany. At the time, Germany was constructing the Berlin-Baghdad Railway with the Ottoman Empire, connecting the famous Orient Express with the Constantinople-Baghdad line, and allow Germany access to the Persian Gulf—and the Persian oil that now fueled the British Navy. Many historians, have argued that the rising tensions between Germany and Britain over the railway had much more to do with the outbreak of World War I than the excuse both sides found for open conflict in backing their respective eastern European allies. As soon as the Ottoman Empire entered the war in November 1914, an Anglo-Indian force siezed Basra in a pre-emptive strike to secure Britain’s oil supply.

Yet beyond the proximate causes, even contemporaries noted the importance of coal. William Notz wrote in The Journal of Political Economy in June 1918:

The coal industry is the basic industry most closely connected with the present war. To both the Allies and the Central Powers their respective available coal resources constitute a sine qua non for carrying on the war, while in the period of reconstruction after the war coal will unquestionably become one of the most vital factors in determining industrial expansion and the growth of international trade.

World War I ended less for military reasons, than for the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 that decimated all sides. Amongst other general burdens placed on Germany, the Versailles Treaty took a decided interest in how coal supplies were divided. Redrawn boundaries deprived Germany of 27% of its coal supplies, and demanded coal exports from Germany so great that it would not allow Germany to meet its own energy needs. It also put a final end to the Berlin-Baghdad Railway, but the British used some of it to construct a railway from Baghdad to their refurbished port at Basra.

More than a conflict unto itself, World War II addressed the casus belli left unfinished by the abrupt, epidemiological end of the “War to End All Wars.” In Germany, the Fischer-Tropsch used substantial amounts of coal to produce liquid fuel. In Japan, oil was the most crucial limited resource. Over 80% of Japan’s oil came from the United States, which the United States began to embargo. Japanese planners began looking to the Dutch East Indies as a supply of oil—though it was sure to bring the United States into the war. It was decided that a quick strike on Pearl Harbor could eliminate the Pacific Fleet in one stroke, push America far enough that they would stay out of the war, and open the way up to the Dutch East Indies. It was a long shot, but with Japan’s oil supply dwindling, the alternative was the collapse of the empire. On 7 December 1941, they made their attack, and the United States entered the war.

Oil had emerged as a key strategic consideration in post-World War I British policy on Iraq as the British navy shifted from coal to oil power. The British rushed troops to Mosul in 1918 to gain control of the northern oil fields. Britain and France clashed over Iraq’s oil during the Versailles Conference and after, with Britain eventually taking the lion’s share by turning its military occupation into colonial rule. 6

When World War II was over, most of the European colonies had declared their independence, of would over the next ten years. Britain’s shifting dependence from its own coal mines to the oil fields of other countries put them in a position where they could no longer maintain dominion over their colonies. In actual fact, even the “New Imperialism” was largely a sign of Britain’s weakness, and the force it needed to compete with other industrializing powers. During World War II, Britain was forced to compromise with Indian factions fighting for independence, leading to a cascade of freed colonies. The borders of the newly-independent countries were often drawn with the long-term interests of European powers in mind. For instance, the borders of Iraq were drawn deliberately to avoid any true nationalism from emerging, and to keep a small, Sunni elite surrounded by hostile neighbors to the north and south (but who would still not identify with each other—in this case, Kurds to the north and Shi’ites to the south). Thus, the key to Iraq’s continued existence would be a strongman in Baghdad, who would need British support, and would thus ensure the continued export of oil to the west. Removing the strongman would be like puliing the pin from a grenade. (SeeThe Nature of Empire“)

Catton saw the transition to petroleum in the same terms of “exuberance” that set the pattern for all of post-Columbian Western history, writing in chapter 3 of Overshoot:

After World War II, for one more generation, people in many parts of the world would act from the illusion that the world’s less fortunate could reap the benefits of an age of neo-exuberance by creating new nations in areas formerly held as colonies by one European power or another. But terminating colonialism could not renew limitlessness. Both imperialism and the subsequent graduation of the earliest and richest colonial components of empires into the status of new nations had been results, not causes, of the age of surplus carrying capacity.

Of course, much of the need for a far-reaching empire had also passed. Coal had been superseded by petroleum, and the needs of politcal power had shifted with them. The British Empire fell apart, and instead, the United States—where the first major oil finds had been discovered—rose to prominence. The U.S., too, had relied on coal during the “Second Industrial Revolution,” but by World War II, the shift to petroleum was complete, and with that shift came American domination. Some of the first oil wells were discovered in Pennsylvania, and the first major oil region was Texas. Later, we would discover even larger reserves in the Middle East, but by then, the “petrodollar” had already become the currency of oil exchange, and United States oil companies dominated the industry. They had the technology to exploit those wells, and so Middle Eastern supplies still primarily meant American affluence and power. When the world switched from coal to oil, it likewise switched from Britain to the United States.

United States energy use by fuel

United States’ energy use by fuel type, 1650-2000

Of course, there was another country to emerge from World War II with significant oil reserves of its own, one we have so far neglected conspicuously: the Soviet Union. In the next article in this series, we’ll go in-depth into the economic history of the USSR, and chart its rise and fall in terms of oil.

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Comments

  1. You’re probably aware of this effect already, but check out Mark Curtis’ ‘Web of Deceit: Britain’s Real Role in the World’ for the particularly insidious manner in which the British Empire ‘fell apart’ by installing parasitic proxies in their colonies that STILL continue to perform much the same function even after direct military and economic presences were removed.

    Britain realised that even though its imperial influence was on the wane, it could still serve Empire as a concept. Hence its historical right-hand-man status to the US, the ‘useful’ functions it provides in supporting IMF re-structuring in favour of corporate privatisation, its pioneering work in the sophisticated manipulation of public opinion (propaganda), its support of indiscriminate arms dealing especially when it helps with ‘divide and rule’ strategies, not to mention its ongoing military participation in postwar energy-based, strategic influence conflicts from Suez to Iraq/Afghanistan, etc etc.

    But maybe I’m getting ahead of you here, and you’re saving this up for part 4?

    I still find these energy-centred perspectives on our history exhilarating when coming from the bland, deceptive euphemisms that you get in mainstream discourse.

    Comment by Ian M — 1 May 2007 @ 11:48 AM

  2. But maybe I’m getting ahead of you here, and you’re saving this up for part 4?

    Exactly. :) Just didn’t want to get into it here so I’d have some meat left for “Neo-colonialism & the New Map.” That’s where we’ll be talking about the pattern that petroleum has created, and how it’s a “bump” in collapse, akin to the Diocletian reformation of the Roman Empire.

    I still find these energy-centred perspectives on our history exhilarating when coming from the bland, deceptive euphemisms that you get in mainstream discourse.

    Giuli and I were discussing this the other day. She said materialism is really the only perspective that offers any actual explanation. Why did the Industrial Revolution happen when and where it did? Simply because those were the first people smart enough to think of it? That’s not an explanation.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 1 May 2007 @ 11:55 AM

  3. oops!

    (Having found that ‘The Nature of Empire’ discusses pretty much all of the above and more…)

    “materialism is really the only perspective that offers any actual explanation”

    I’m finding that more & more often myself, although I have to struggle to think of anyone I know who wouldn’t take some offence at this interpretation of events:

    “So you’re saying that human beings have NO control over their DESTINY??!?”

    Looking forward to 4 already - sounds fascinating. Any chance of an exclusive preview?

    :)

    Comment by Ian M — 1 May 2007 @ 12:30 PM

  4. “So you’re saying that human beings have NO control over their DESTINY??!?”

    Indeed, but where’s the evidence? This is thrown out as if it’s the death knell of materialism, and all it really says is that I’ve offeneded your religious sensibilities with my facts.

    Looking forward to 4 already - sounds fascinating. Any chance of an exclusive preview?

    Heh, well, publication tends to run pretty quickly after completion, but I can tell you what I have in mind: neo-colonialism, Vail’s “New Map” (Warning! Microsoft Word DOC!), the rise of multi-national corporations, and the dissolution of the state in favor of more amorphous networks. That is, the sudden loss of an established level of complexity, and how terrorist networks, corporations, and other amorphous networks are better able to break down as collapse continues.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 1 May 2007 @ 12:36 PM

  5. Here’s a post I made on a liberal political blog, about why the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is starting to send out policy-signals contradictory to US interests, that may anticipate part of your next post.

    Part of the problem may be that the Saudi Kingdom’s oil production has passed its peak, and so the monarchy is going to have to stop pissing off the Islamic militants once the oil largess starts to run low. And it may start running low very soon. In order to bankrupt the USSR in the 1980’s, the US pressured the Saudis into vastly increasing their oil output. The result was a glut of petroleum that depressed the price and vastly reduced the money the USSR made on petroleum exports (and of course, the dysfunctionally sclerotic nature of statist communism didn’t help, either).

    But the techniques used to increase Saudi Arabia’s oil output were the sort of thing that degraded the geological structures that contain the oil reserves. You can only withdraw so much oil in a certain period of time without degrading these geological structures. The ultimate result is that production peaks sooner. Not only that, but the well ends up producing less total oil in its entire production lifetime before it reaches the point where it can yield no more, thanks to this degradation of geological structure. So the downslope of the Peak Oil bell-curve in SA’s case could be a fast and steep one indeed.

    I would further add my own speculation to my post above that the main US motivation for pushing the USSR’s economy over the edge was revenge for Vietnam. We gave both the North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong guerrilla forces a hell of a pounding militarily, but that still wasn’t enough. That was a hard fucking humiliation for US hawks to just swallow and live with. We were supposed to be the Invincible Empire, after all.

    Comment by venuspluto67 — 1 May 2007 @ 2:20 PM

  6. Saudi oil production dropped 8% in 2006

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 1 May 2007 @ 2:25 PM

  7. And the graphs for North American natural gas extraction will be even scarier starting about 2008.

    Comment by venuspluto67 — 1 May 2007 @ 2:27 PM

  8. You might want to check the plural of casus belli, it’s third class. I’m looking forward to the next part.

    Comment by slx — 1 May 2007 @ 3:51 PM

  9. You’re right—I know just enough Latin to get myself into trouble. If online dictionaries are to be believed, the plural of casus belli is casus belli. Fixed above.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 1 May 2007 @ 4:04 PM

  10. Well, I finally got put “The New Map” in .pdf format:

    http://www.jeffvail.net/thenewmap.pdf

    The link on my page will change shortly. Turns out those free web-t0-pdf things are pretty easy to use :)

    Comment by Jeff Vail — 2 May 2007 @ 3:10 PM

  11. Ahhhhhhh … you have provided me with untold relief, now that I can link to one of your best pieces without having to send the innocent to Microsoft’s slaughter.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 2 May 2007 @ 3:13 PM

  12. The growing sociological tension eventually led to the United States Civil War, much more than any of the moral causes later attributed to it.

    I think “North American War Between the States” would be a better name for this war, because it wasn’t actually a civil war in the proper sense of the word. It was in many ways an “old-fashioned” war between two different countries.

    Neo-Confederate types who defend the South do have a point when they contend that the misnamed Civil War transformed the USA from a federation of sovereign states into a unitary nation-state. However, it is very unlikely that the old federal arrangement of 1788 could have survived the USA becoming an industrial power. Intensive industrialization requires a single strong center of political power, and the old arrangement just wasn’t going to cut it in that regard.

    Comment by venuspluto67 — 3 May 2007 @ 11:08 AM

  13. It was in many ways an “old-fashioned” war between two different countries.

    Not according to the Union, which didn’t acknowledge the legitimacy of the C.S.A. The difference between a civil war and a revolution is all in which side wins. The Union won, so it was a “civil war.”

    Neo-Confederate types who defend the South do have a point when they contend that the misnamed Civil War transformed the USA from a federation of sovereign states into a unitary nation-state.

    I tend to think of the civil war as the real death knell of the contention between state and federal power that went back all the way to the Articles of Confederation, and thus, really, the death knell of any significant personal influence on politics. That Lincoln could issue the Emancipation Proclamation half-way through and convince everyone, even today, that it was about slavery, was truly one of history’s greatest spin jobs. Most C.S.A. soldiers never owned a slave, and certainly didn’t see themselves defending slavery, any more than Union soldiers saw themselves defending abysmal factory working conditions or child labor. In both cases, they were simply the affronts to human dignity needed to keep their civilizations going.

    However, it is very unlikely that the old federal arrangement of 1788 could have survived the USA becoming an industrial power. Intensive industrialization requires a single strong center of political power, and the old arrangement just wasn’t going to cut it in that regard.

    Exactly; the U.S. was one of the very last Western countries to abolish slavery, but it was also one of the last to industrialize. Slavery was going, regardless of civil war or not. What brought it to war was the tension of a pre-industrial, agrarian democracy versus the corporate oligarchy that industrialism demanded.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 3 May 2007 @ 11:18 AM

  14. Though one could argue that the South got its revenge for that and for the Federal Government making them give up Jim Crow in the 1960’s by being an important component (if not the very heart and soul) of the highly retrograde conservative cultural movement that has made such a mark on national policy. Because of that, one may be tempted to say that we should have let the South secede. After all, slavery was simply restored after the Civil War in the form of sharecropping. But civilization must grow, and the South breaking away would have constituted shrinkage, or at least far less potential growth. Therefore, their rebellion had to be terminated.

    Comment by venuspluto67 — 3 May 2007 @ 12:18 PM

  15. Great read Jason.

    Peak wood, Peak Oil…it would be interesting to do an analysis of Peak Buffalo - ultimatley, what started the domino’s that led to the collapse of Plains societies (here in Canada at least).

    Comment by Peter D — 4 May 2007 @ 1:49 AM

  16. Hey Jason, good to see back writing stuff. Speaking of Cakohia… I just followed the link back to your Cahokia post of 2005, and it got me thinking about Peter Lamborn Wilson’s speculative argument in “Escape from the 19th century” (http://www.amazon.com/Escape-19th-Century-Other-Essays/dp/1570270732)
    He suggests that the Native tribes of America constitute one of the few examples of a people actively moving away from the state of Civilisation, and that the Snake Mounds (?) of Ohio were a kind of ritual scarification of the landscape designed to remind the people never to go back to the same mistakes again. You might want to check it out if you’re interested. He’s always intriguing, if not always right.

    While I’m at it, I was reading Robert Pirsig’s “Lila” (the sequel to Zen and the Yadayada. I am so far the only person I know who has ever read it) and he mentioned one William James Sidis, noted child prodigy and pseudonymous author of a book called The Tribes and the States, wherein (amongst the crazier Atlantean theories) he “argues persuasively that the New England political system [of Jefferson et al] was profoundly influenced by the democratic federation of the Penacook Indians.” Also: http://www.sidis.net/TSContents.htm

    Be nice if it was true, wouldn’t it? Because it would, at least partially, imply that, rather than American democracy being the ultimate manifestation of the long history of Western political evolution, it is in fact a rather random and unlikely irruption of primitive values into an otherwise dominator-hierarchical civilisation. :)

    Comment by cheeba — 11 May 2007 @ 5:12 PM

  17. I assume you have read “A Century of War” by F. William Engdahl? He covers much of the same material.

    Any opinions here of this book?

    Comment by PeterR — 13 May 2007 @ 7:45 AM

  18. He suggests that the Native tribes of America constitute one of the few examples of a people actively moving away from the state of Civilisation, and that the Snake Mounds (?) of Ohio were a kind of ritual scarification of the landscape designed to remind the people never to go back to the same mistakes again. You might want to check it out if you’re interested. He’s always intriguing, if not always right.

    Interesting. I’ve got an article that concerns Snake Mound that I’m planning on publishing later this week–suffice to say, I don’t think this really has much basis in reality, but I’ll look it up.

    Be nice if it was true, wouldn’t it? Because it would, at least partially, imply that, rather than American democracy being the ultimate manifestation of the long history of Western political evolution, it is in fact a rather random and unlikely irruption of primitive values into an otherwise dominator-hierarchical civilisation.

    Sounds like that part’s a little crackpot, but 1491 also suggests that the colonists were instilled with a certain radical notion of independence by their Native neighbors. The notion once floated that the “Founding Fathers” were chiefly inspired by the Haudenosaunee seems difficult to defend, but there are certainly elements in play. I see the history of the U.S. as two centuries of working out the oxymoron of a “free state,” with repeated historical confrontations of freedom vs. statehood. Consistently, we’ve decided to be a state, and to sacrifice freedom, but it was certainly a noble experiment, and one that proves fairly well that freedom and statehood are antithetical to one another.

    I assume you have read “A Century of War” by F. William Engdahl? He covers much of the same material.

    Sorry, haven’t read it.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 14 May 2007 @ 10:57 AM

  19. i love this website. kidding. it came up under a graph of imperialism in the united states. and nothing protained to what i searched for. nothing in here is what i need. rethink where you caterorgize this website next time buddy. Thank you and have a fantastic day!

    Comment by yomanyo@aol.com — 29 May 2007 @ 1:00 PM

  20. It is tagged with “imperialism,” which it’s about, but none of the tags are related to the U.S. If you don’t know how to do a proper search, that’s your own problem.

    Comment by Jason Godesky — 29 May 2007 @ 2:17 PM

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