Comments on: Grandfather’s Footsteps http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/ se wo were fi na wosan kofa a yenki Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:20:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Plantain: This shit is NOT bananas « WildeRix http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-151692 Plantain: This shit is NOT bananas « WildeRix Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:11:34 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-151692 [...] Since I had very little time left to get ready for the trip and nobody really to help me, I needed to treat the wound quickly and get back to work.  I had just completed a new wiki page for the REWILD.info field guide on plantain, inspired by Jason Godesky’s wonderful article called “Grandfather’s Footsteps” over at Anthropik.  In preparing the wiki article, I noticed that some of the sources attributed a styptic property to plantain leaves.  “Perfect,” I thought, “I already know it can help heal a wound, maybe it can close this one off at the same time.” [...] […] Since I had very little time left to get ready for the trip and nobody really to help me, I needed to treat the wound quickly and get back to work.  I had just completed a new wiki page for the REWILD.info field guide on plantain, inspired by Jason Godesky’s wonderful article called “Grandfather’s Footsteps” over at Anthropik.  In preparing the wiki article, I noticed that some of the sources attributed a styptic property to plantain leaves.  “Perfect,” I thought, “I already know it can help heal a wound, maybe it can close this one off at the same time.” […]

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By: Rix http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-148913 Rix Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:56:47 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-148913 I turned this into a songlines page on the REWILD.info wiki <a href="http://www.rewild.info/fieldguide/index.php?title=Plantain/Songlines" rel="nofollow">here</a>. I turned this into a songlines page on the REWILD.info wiki here.

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By: The Color-Maiden (The Anthropik Network) http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-146534 The Color-Maiden (The Anthropik Network) Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:44:49 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-146534 [...] Last Week: Grandfather's Footsteps [...] […] Last Week: Grandfather’s Footsteps […]

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By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-144000 Jason Godesky Fri, 22 Jun 2007 13:27:45 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-144000 That's a very easy path to become overwhelmed in. As an animist, I see the whole world as relatives and potential friends, but a universe of relationships doesn't mean that everything and everyone in it should be trusted. Some plants have tricky personalities, and have their own agendas. It takes a deep, rich shamanic tradition to really know which ones are which. Look at the "Lords of the Outer Darkness" that <em>ayahuasca</em> drinkers so often encounter; your average Westerner experimenting with entheogens would actually <em>believe</em> them. Entheogens have been part of such shamanic traditions in the past, but rediscovering them is like the post-grad studies of shamanism. Most of us are lucky if we get through Kindergarten. Entheogens are usually used as aids for weak or inexperienced shamans, but they're used under the supervision of very experienced shamans who understand the plant and its agenda. You're engaging this plant, after all; it may want to "ride" you around for a bit, and if you don't know that this particular plant is willful, tricky and not particularly concerned with human welfare, you might easily fall into that trap. The other important part to look at is your own local ecology. Is your bioregion a place where entheogens have traditionally been used? What entheogens are they? I've been using the term "Second Shaman," because while we have some last vestiges of shamanic traditions to learn from, we'll largely need to rediscover it for ourselves, and learn from the plants, animals, winds and Others directly. We'll need to duplicate the feat of First Shaman. I doubt First Shaman used entheogens, though; that's probably too advanced, and it's probably too advanced for us. Our great-grandchildren might get to the point where they're able to deal with powers like that, but for us, just wrapping our heads around the notion that we can shapeshift or talk to animals is difficult enough. That’s a very easy path to become overwhelmed in. As an animist, I see the whole world as relatives and potential friends, but a universe of relationships doesn’t mean that everything and everyone in it should be trusted. Some plants have tricky personalities, and have their own agendas. It takes a deep, rich shamanic tradition to really know which ones are which. Look at the “Lords of the Outer Darkness” that ayahuasca drinkers so often encounter; your average Westerner experimenting with entheogens would actually believe them.

Entheogens have been part of such shamanic traditions in the past, but rediscovering them is like the post-grad studies of shamanism. Most of us are lucky if we get through Kindergarten. Entheogens are usually used as aids for weak or inexperienced shamans, but they’re used under the supervision of very experienced shamans who understand the plant and its agenda. You’re engaging this plant, after all; it may want to “ride” you around for a bit, and if you don’t know that this particular plant is willful, tricky and not particularly concerned with human welfare, you might easily fall into that trap.

The other important part to look at is your own local ecology. Is your bioregion a place where entheogens have traditionally been used? What entheogens are they?

I’ve been using the term “Second Shaman,” because while we have some last vestiges of shamanic traditions to learn from, we’ll largely need to rediscover it for ourselves, and learn from the plants, animals, winds and Others directly. We’ll need to duplicate the feat of First Shaman. I doubt First Shaman used entheogens, though; that’s probably too advanced, and it’s probably too advanced for us. Our great-grandchildren might get to the point where they’re able to deal with powers like that, but for us, just wrapping our heads around the notion that we can shapeshift or talk to animals is difficult enough.

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By: Ulerian http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143877 Ulerian Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:44:22 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143877 Very good article Jason, and I agree with you. Shamanism as a "thin veneer for drug use" is just another way the current capitalist culture tends to degrade and product-ize everything. Let me clarify: I'm really not talking about the use of entheogens as a way to "become" a (neo)shaman of any existing tribe/tradition, but as a possible tool for reconnecting with our plant teachers. My experiences on these substances have been both terrifying and illuminating, never to be undertaken lightly or for recreation. The context in which they are taken is critical. There is ecstasy, but there is agony, too. But these plants have always taught me something about the world and our place in it. We could do worse than model ourselves on their processes. I'm not saying they are the only way, but they can be a tool for trying to reconnect with nature. And whether we call it shamanism or not, I think we all agree that a reconnection to our ground of being is essential for our continued survival as a species. Terence McKenna never claimed to be a shaman of any kind, by the way. He was probably more of a trickster or maverick, by his own definition. But his experiences with the realms he encountered on psychedelics helped him see that the way out of our present predicament is a combination of what we've learned technologically with what we left behind 15,000 years ago. Only the technology is in our minds, not outside of us in our toys/artifacts. My reading of him shows no conflict whatsoever with much of what you and others are writing about now. Apparently it is only the means by which he gained his insights that cause discomfort. Try as we might, we cannot easily escape our barren birthright of Judaeo-Christian distrust of altered consciousness and pleasure. It's true we should not and truly cannot appropriate another's culture. But how are we to reclaim our own shamanism, without seeing how others are doing it? Perhaps certain plants can teach us how, can help us create a shamanism that is distinctly our own. There had to be a "first shaman" somewhere--how did he/she learn it? How do we reclaim it? A thorny question to be sure... Just another piece of the tapestry, for your consideration. Regardless of one's comfort level with the discussion, the entheogens are also mythic plants, and ought not be overlooked due to cultural/societal prejudice. They are healers, too, little as we may trust them. :-) Very good article Jason, and I agree with you. Shamanism as a “thin veneer for drug use” is just another way the current capitalist culture tends to degrade and product-ize everything.

Let me clarify: I’m really not talking about the use of entheogens as a way to “become” a (neo)shaman of any existing tribe/tradition, but as a possible tool for reconnecting with our plant teachers. My experiences on these substances have been both terrifying and illuminating, never to be undertaken lightly or for recreation. The context in which they are taken is critical. There is ecstasy, but there is agony, too.

But these plants have always taught me something about the world and our place in it. We could do worse than model ourselves on their processes. I’m not saying they are the only way, but they can be a tool for trying to reconnect with nature. And whether we call it shamanism or not, I think we all agree that a reconnection to our ground of being is essential for our continued survival as a species.

Terence McKenna never claimed to be a shaman of any kind, by the way. He was probably more of a trickster or maverick, by his own definition. But his experiences with the realms he encountered on psychedelics helped him see that the way out of our present predicament is a combination of what we’ve learned technologically with what we left behind 15,000 years ago. Only the technology is in our minds, not outside of us in our toys/artifacts. My reading of him shows no conflict whatsoever with much of what you and others are writing about now. Apparently it is only the means by which he gained his insights that cause discomfort. Try as we might, we cannot easily escape our barren birthright of Judaeo-Christian distrust of altered consciousness and pleasure.

It’s true we should not and truly cannot appropriate another’s culture. But how are we to reclaim our own shamanism, without seeing how others are doing it? Perhaps certain plants can teach us how, can help us create a shamanism that is distinctly our own. There had to be a “first shaman” somewhere–how did he/she learn it? How do we reclaim it? A thorny question to be sure…

Just another piece of the tapestry, for your consideration. Regardless of one’s comfort level with the discussion, the entheogens are also mythic plants, and ought not be overlooked due to cultural/societal prejudice. They are healers, too, little as we may trust them. :-)

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By: Jason Godesky http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143212 Jason Godesky Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:02:55 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143212 Check out "<a href="http://anthropik.com/2005/10/neoshamanism-is-masturbation/" rel="nofollow">Neoshamanism is Masturbation</a>." We take a dim view of shamanism as a thin veneer for drug use, which is what so much of neo-shamanism amounts to. Entheogens have their place, but that's a place that's well beyond mere cultural appropriation. Check out “Neoshamanism is Masturbation.” We take a dim view of shamanism as a thin veneer for drug use, which is what so much of neo-shamanism amounts to. Entheogens have their place, but that’s a place that’s well beyond mere cultural appropriation.

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By: Ulerian http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143180 Ulerian Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:11:17 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143180 I love this site, but it's huge! Has there ever been any discussion previously about the use of hallucinogenic/entheogenic plants and shamanism? I'm re-reading Terence McKenna's Food of the Gods and The Archaic Revival at the moment, and finding them very stimulating to my ideas about the return to Paleolithic values of ecstasy and connection with nature that are inevitable as we face the messy end of the Industrial Experiment...anyone have any thoughts on this? Or can you direct me to somewhere on the site where entheogenic shamanism is discussed? Keep up the great writing, Jason and Tribe... I love this site, but it’s huge! Has there ever been any discussion previously about the use of hallucinogenic/entheogenic plants and shamanism? I’m re-reading Terence McKenna’s Food of the Gods and The Archaic Revival at the moment, and finding them very stimulating to my ideas about the return to Paleolithic values of ecstasy and connection with nature that are inevitable as we face the messy end of the Industrial Experiment…anyone have any thoughts on this? Or can you direct me to somewhere on the site where entheogenic shamanism is discussed?

Keep up the great writing, Jason and Tribe…

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By: Archdruid Watch: Adam’s Morbid Fantasy (The Anthropik Network) http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143110 Archdruid Watch: Adam’s Morbid Fantasy (The Anthropik Network) Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:34:33 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-143110 [...] Humans, alone in the "wilderness," do die. Were these "primitivists" setting out to found tribal societies all by themselves? Or were they simply completely ignorant of any kind of primitive skills? I'm about as green as one can come, and even I know how to overcome the problems that keep killing off Greer's dramatis personae. The elder nanmin sister in the second installment died from an infected cut, something that a decent poultice made from leaves borrowed from Grandfather's Footsteps could have helped alleviate. Adam's sweetheart stumbles out of the woods, afflicted with some tick-borne disease. Checking for ticks every evening isn't just a matter of safety and health, it's a bonding experience for a would-be tribe, as well, the same way other primates groom one another. Even if you missed one and a disease did develop, the natural world is not devoid of antibiotics. Lyme disease is easily treated with a vigorous antibiotic regimen when caught in time, and there are plenty of antibacterial herbs that can be employed to make such a treatment, including, once again, Grandfather's Footsteps. [...] […] Humans, alone in the “wilderness,” do die. Were these “primitivists” setting out to found tribal societies all by themselves? Or were they simply completely ignorant of any kind of primitive skills? I’m about as green as one can come, and even I know how to overcome the problems that keep killing off Greer’s dramatis personae. The elder nanmin sister in the second installment died from an infected cut, something that a decent poultice made from leaves borrowed from Grandfather’s Footsteps could have helped alleviate. Adam’s sweetheart stumbles out of the woods, afflicted with some tick-borne disease. Checking for ticks every evening isn’t just a matter of safety and health, it’s a bonding experience for a would-be tribe, as well, the same way other primates groom one another. Even if you missed one and a disease did develop, the natural world is not devoid of antibiotics. Lyme disease is easily treated with a vigorous antibiotic regimen when caught in time, and there are plenty of antibacterial herbs that can be employed to make such a treatment, including, once again, Grandfather’s Footsteps. […]

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By: Myths to live by « WildeRix http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-141789 Myths to live by « WildeRix Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:47:06 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-141789 [...] Although I received nice comments on the story when I first shared it on the forum, what I really hoped for did not materialize: more stories from more people.  So imagine my glee when I came across this post at the Anthropik Network.  To make things even better, apparently this post merely represents the beginning of a series of posts from Anthropik that will focus on translating practical knowledge into oral myth. [...] […] Although I received nice comments on the story when I first shared it on the forum, what I really hoped for did not materialize: more stories from more people.  So imagine my glee when I came across this post at the Anthropik Network.  To make things even better, apparently this post merely represents the beginning of a series of posts from Anthropik that will focus on translating practical knowledge into oral myth. […]

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By: Rix http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-141314 Rix Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:26:44 +0000 http://anthropik.com/2007/06/grandfathers-footsteps/#comment-141314 amen to all the above. and all hail the glory of "copyleft". the story stand appropriate as-is for a <a href="http://www.rewild.info/fieldguide/index.php?title=Songlines" rel="nofollow">songlines sub-page</a> in the wiki. now we just need a plantain page to parent it. :) amen to all the above. and all hail the glory of “copyleft”.

the story stand appropriate as-is for a songlines sub-page in the wiki. now we just need a plantain page to parent it. :)

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